Comments on: The Waterfront Trolley and TOD http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod Puget Sound Transportation and Land Use Issues Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:55:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: gwerner http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1126 gwerner Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1126 Keeping the current WSC route as is ... and extending it North to Interbay ... there are some issues that they would have to overcome. The Streetcar line would theoretically run along side the park ... between where the Grain Elevator Yard tracks are and the bike path. There should be plenty of room for at least 1 track with intermittent passing sidings like along Alaska Way. The problem comes with the Grain Elevator. The Grain Elevator fills ships by means of a conveyor belt that runs over the walking and bike paths. The problem is that Grain Dust and Static Electricity tend to cause explosions. I do not know if it would be possible to have an open, powered electric wire right below the conveyor ... but lets say they build some kind of snow-shed type structure that will allow the line to safely pass below ... the next problem is where Pier 90/91 are located. The line would have to wrap around the end of the park ... almost to Elliot Way ... before running back west to the terminals. I don't know if there is enough space there for that to happen with the roads etc ... Now personally, I would love to have the line run out there ... well actually I would love a tram line from Ballard to run down Elliot and then go up and over the rail yard to the waterfront and then head north to King St. Station ... as well as a line continuing up Elliot and then down First avenue ... but unless Paul Allen or Bill Gates steps up to fund that ... we'll probably never see it. Keeping the current WSC route as is … and extending it North to Interbay … there are some issues that they would have to overcome.

The Streetcar line would theoretically run along side the park … between where the Grain Elevator Yard tracks are and the bike path. There should be plenty of room for at least 1 track with intermittent passing sidings like along Alaska Way. The problem comes with the Grain Elevator. The Grain Elevator fills ships by means of a conveyor belt that runs over the walking and bike paths. The problem is that Grain Dust and Static Electricity tend to cause explosions.

I do not know if it would be possible to have an open, powered electric wire right below the conveyor … but lets say they build some kind of snow-shed type structure that will allow the line to safely pass below …

the next problem is where Pier 90/91 are located. The line would have to wrap around the end of the park … almost to Elliot Way … before running back west to the terminals. I don’t know if there is enough space there for that to happen with the roads etc …

Now personally, I would love to have the line run out there … well actually I would love a tram line from Ballard to run down Elliot and then go up and over the rail yard to the waterfront and then head north to King St. Station … as well as a line continuing up Elliot and then down First avenue … but unless Paul Allen or Bill Gates steps up to fund that … we’ll probably never see it.

]]> By: Matt the Engineer http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1127 Matt the Engineer Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1127 It was really a shame when they mothballed it for lack of a place to park at night. Instead of north, why not take it south to the other ferry terminals? It should be cheap and easy to build a maintenance garage down there, and construction would be a piece of cake on that old open road. It was really a shame when they mothballed it for lack of a place to park at night. Instead of north, why not take it south to the other ferry terminals? It should be cheap and easy to build a maintenance garage down there, and construction would be a piece of cake on that old open road.

]]> By: serial catowner http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1128 serial catowner Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1128 Basically, the trolley wire is grounded. It's harder to blow up flour dust than you think- if it wasn't, I wouldn't be here to tell about it. As for the actual alignment, the trolley track is on the water side of the railroad at Pier 70, and that's the biggie. The potential market from the cruise ships, Interbay, and the development along the shore from Pier 70 to Pier 90 should be enough to support the extension, IMHO. After all, the original line was actually making money, so it's not like we're pinning all our hopes on the market of the extension. Basically, the trolley wire is grounded. It’s harder to blow up flour dust than you think- if it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be here to tell about it.

As for the actual alignment, the trolley track is on the water side of the railroad at Pier 70, and that’s the biggie. The potential market from the cruise ships, Interbay, and the development along the shore from Pier 70 to Pier 90 should be enough to support the extension, IMHO. After all, the original line was actually making money, so it’s not like we’re pinning all our hopes on the market of the extension.

]]> By: serial catowner http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1129 serial catowner Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1129 Not sure which other ferry terminals you mean- the WSF boats dock across the street from the trolley, and the Alaska boats moved to Bellingham. IIRC, the Soviet submarine service has been discontinued. Not sure which other ferry terminals you mean- the WSF boats dock across the street from the trolley, and the Alaska boats moved to Bellingham. IIRC, the Soviet submarine service has been discontinued.

]]> By: Matt the Engineer http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1130 Matt the Engineer Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1130 Oops. I meant the other cruise ship ports. There's a large cruise ship terminal building down south a bit that drops off tourists in the middle of nowhere. Oops. I meant the other cruise ship ports. There’s a large cruise ship terminal building down south a bit that drops off tourists in the middle of nowhere.

]]> By: serial catowner http://www.orphanroad.com/blog/2009/04/waterfront-trolley-and-tod/comment-page-1#comment-1131 serial catowner Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://wp.orphanroad.com/?p=1137#comment-1131 I'll just leave this here... "The Port of Seattle says the Friday morning arrival of Holland America's Amsterdam is the first of 211 calls this year that will bring 800,000 passengers through the city. The port commission says each cruise ship contributes $1.7 million to the local economy. The new $72 million terminal at Pier 91 has two berths that provide electricity to ships so they don't have to run their engines - and pollute the air - to generate power. The terminal serves Holland America, Celebrity, Norwegian, Princess, and Royal Caribbean cruises between Seattle and Alaska. It replaces a cruise ship dock at Terminal 30 that is being returned to cargo ships." From the AP as reported in the Seattle <a href="http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_first_cruise_ship.html" rel="nofollow">P-I</a>. I’ll just leave this here…

“The Port of Seattle says the Friday morning arrival of Holland America’s Amsterdam is the first of 211 calls this year that will bring 800,000 passengers through the city. The port commission says each cruise ship contributes $1.7 million to the local economy.

The new $72 million terminal at Pier 91 has two berths that provide electricity to ships so they don’t have to run their engines – and pollute the air – to generate power.

The terminal serves Holland America, Celebrity, Norwegian, Princess, and Royal Caribbean cruises between Seattle and Alaska. It replaces a cruise ship dock at Terminal 30 that is being returned to cargo ships.”

From the AP as reported in the Seattle P-I.

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